The 1962 Rwanda Independence was given in a wrong manner to the wrong people who never advocated for it, and after gaining the independence, they used it for their selfish interests. The Sunday Times’ Frank Kanyesigye caught up with Mzee Ezra Mpyisi who talked about the political tensions in Rwanda during the pre and post independence era.Below are the excerpts;Q: Who is Mzee Ezra Mpyisi?A: I am a Pastor of the Seventh Adventist Church. I was born in 1922, in Nyanza which was the capital city of Rwanda at the time. I was born during the reign of King Yuhi V Musinga but unfortunately, in 1931, King Musinga was deposed by the Belgian administration due to his refusal to uphold the catholic religion. I spent most of my youthful days during the reign of King Mutara III Rudahigwa Charles Leon Pierre. I attended several primary schools during the colonial era such as; Rwamata Adventists School and Gitwe Missionary School. After King Rudahigwa’s death in I959, Rwanda was characterised by political and social unrests which forced me into exile.I fled to Zimbabwe and joined Solusi Adventists University. While there, I pursued a Bachelors Degree in Theology. As a refugee, I worked as a missionary Adventist and a teacher in different countries until I returned back to Rwanda in 1996. I got married in 1944 and was blessed with eight children, seven sons and a daughter. Unfortunately, two of my sons died when we had returned to Rwanda. I have about 15 grandchildren and two great grandchildren.Q: Where were you in 1962 when Rwanda gained Independence?A: As I told you earlier, I fled the country in 1960 due to unrests in Rwanda at the time. Rwanda gained independence when I was in Zimbabwe studying at Solusi Adventists University. While in Zimbabwe I followed closely what happened in my country at the time of independence. After the Belgians had overthrown King Musinga and replaced him with his son, King Mutara Rudahigwa. The new monarch was very friendly with the Belgians and favoured Christianity. He set an example when he converted to Catholicism taking the name of Charles Leon Pierre. His reign was a period of peace between the colonial regime and the native population as the missionary work spread across the country. King Rudahigwa died on July 25, 1959 after being vaccinated by a Belgian doctor in Bujumbura.His death sparked political and social tensions in Rwanda and hundreds of thousands fled the country fearing persecution from the regime that took over power, and that’s when I fled the country. Q: Under what circumstances did Rwanda obtain Independence?A: The 1962 independence was given in a wrong manner to the wrong people who never asked for it, and after becoming independent, they used it for their own desires.After King Rudahingwa was enthroned following the exile of his father, he was very friendly with the Belgians and favoured Christianity. When the whole of Africa was asking for independence in the 1950’s, Rudahingwa, through his leadership under the political party Union Nationale Rwandaise (UNAR), asked for Rwanda’s independence. I was in the leadership of UNAR when we asked for independence. During that time, King Rudahigwa went to Europe and met several African leaders who were also advocating for the independence of their nations.During that time, the Belgians hated him for that because they realised that if Rwanda gained independence, they would lose their authority over Rwandans. The Belgians then decided to weaken King Rudahigwa’s power by applying the policy of divide and rule among Rwandans.Due to the fact that the Belgians were the ones in control; they succeeded in dividing Rwandans into ethnic groups. This attitude of creating distinctions between Rwandans and favouring one of them resulted into civil strife in the country.At that time, King Rudahigwa went to Bujumbura to look for a movement permit from the governor of Rwanda and Burundi as he was preparing to go to America. When the Belgians came to know that he was in Burundi for a movement permit, Rudahigwa’s Belgian private doctor vaccinated him with poison and he died right away.He passed on after he had founded UNAR. Consequently, due to the divisionism among Rwandans, RADER and Parti du Mouvement de l’Emancipation du Peuple Hutu, Parmehutu (the Party for Hutu Emancipation) emerged but UNAR was the leading party.After the disappearance of UNAR’s leader, a man known as Rukeba stood up and declared himself as the leader of UNAR. He continued to advocate for independence, but due to political pressure from the Belgian administration, UNAR leadership became defunct and the members fled into exile.Following the death of King Rudahigwa in 1959; he was replaced on the throne by his younger brother Jean-Baptiste Ndahindurwa as King Kigeli V. Political instability and tribal conflicts became so tense. In 1961, King Kigeli  went to Kinshasa to meet the Secretary-General of the United Nations(UN) Dag Hammarskjöld, when Dominique Mbonyumutwa, with the support of the Belgian administration, led a coup d’état and took control of the government.In 1961 UN wanted to give Rwanda independence but those who asked for it were nowhere to be seen because they had fled the country fearing to be persecuted by the Belgian administration.The UN refused to grant Rwanda independence before the people who asked for it, returned to Rwanda. Consequently, the UN decided to hold a referendum to establish who wanted the independence and who did not.However, the Belgians put pressure on the UN to grant Rwanda independence and gave it to Grégoire Kayibanda, who was the leader of Parmehutu at the time. However, Kayibanda refused to take it preffering to let the country remain under the leadership of Belgian administration. In September 1961, the legislative elections and a referendum on retaining the institution of the monarchy or establishing a republican government were held. Then Rwanda became a republican regime under the leadership of the first president, Kayibanda.In June 1962, the UN General Assembly passed a resolution providing for the independent states of Rwanda and Burundi, and on July 1, Rwanda became an independent country under the leadership of Kayibanda. The country got independence through the people who never asked for or wanted it.Q: Why do People say that Rwanda did not become an independent state even after the proclamation of independence?A: I am not a politician, but what I can tell you is that, the independence was given to wrong the people. Those who asked for it were in exile at the time the country became independent.The people who never wanted independence got it and they used it for their own interests and the result of it was the 1994 Genocide against the Tutsi. Since I am not a politician, that’s all I can tell you, but you can go and ask all Rwandans why they keep saying that Rwanda didn’t become independent.Q: How different was Rwanda’s independence from the independence in other neighbouring countries?A: The difference is big because in other countries, independence was given to the people who asked for it unlike Rwanda. No other country in the region had genocide apart from Rwanda, and that clearly shows you how Rwanda’s independence is different from the independence of other countries.Q: How would you describe the first years that followed Rwanda’s independence during the first and second republics?A: The post independence period during the reign Gregoire Kayibanda was characterised by violence, killings, prejudice and divisionism among Rwandans.Kayibanda used his powers to torture and massacre Rwandans since he gained independence. He used independence for his own desires and continued to hold this post after being re-elected in the year 1965 and 1969. Post Independence Rwanda witnessed periods of turbulence due to the rising tensions between the different groups, namely the Tutsi and the Hutus. During Kayibanda’s reign, killing of Tutsis became the order of the day and many fled to neighbouring countries. There were political and social instabilities in the country. Kayibanda served as a President from 1962 until July 5, 1973, when he was ousted by his defence minister, Major General Juvénal Habyarimana, in a military coup. The new government held Kayibanda in a secret location, where he was starved to death.After Habyarimana had overthrown Kayibanda and ousting the then-ruling Hutu party, the killings of Tutsis continued but this time not as much as in Kayibanda’s regime. Tutsi children were denied education and those who became uncomfortable of Habyarimana’s regime fled the country. In 1975, Habyarimana created the Mouvement Révolutionaire National pour le Développement (MRND) as the country’s only authorised party. His government remained entirely in military hands until 1978, when a new constitution was approved in a referendum.MRND became the official state party. At the same time, Habyarimana was elected to a five-year term as president. He won favour among both Hutu and Tutsi groups given his administration’s reluctance to implement policies that catered to his primarily Hutu supporters. However, Habyarimana eventually began to oversee a government that mirrored the policies of Kayibanda’s regime.Habyarimana and his supporters formed akazu (President’s household), which was mainly composed of an informal group of Hutu extremists from his home province. In 1990’s during the invasion of Rwanda Patriotic Army (RPA) to Rwanda, Kigeri V Ndahindurwa wrote to Habyarimana to allow Rwandans in exile to return home; he replied by saying that Rwanda was already full and the people in exile should remain there.Q: What is the difference between independence and Liberation?A: The difference is really big, because the independence was given but used against Rwandans in favour of others. Liberation was for all Rwandans. You can see Rwandans are treated equally and living as one people unlike the post independence period during Kayibanda and Habyarimana’s regimes. RPA fought to set Rwandans free from bad leadership that was full of hatred, persecution and divisionism. Rwanda gained full independence after RPA had liberated the country. The independence was used wrongly by the people who never asked for it until Rwanda was liberated. Q: Is Rwanda independent today?A: Of course, the country is independent. All Rwandans are treated the same way, not in groupings; no one is classified as a Tutsi, Hutu or Twa.  We are all Rwandans. No Rwandan has been denied education, healthcare, among others, as in the previous regimes.The independence is being used in a proper manner. The present leadership still has a big challenge of correcting the previous blunders.Q: Where do you see Rwanda’s future?A: Rwanda’s future is bright, but the country still faces a big challenge compared to other countries in the region due to what happened in previous governments. There is a need to work hard and move the country forward. Rwandans should not relax and rejoice that they gained independence like other African states; they need to work hard and correct the mistakes committed during Kayibanda and Habyarimana’s reigns.Q: What is your advice to the young generation? A: The youth should see themselves as the future of this country and avoid committing the same mistakes committed during the previous regimes. I advise them to be good leaders who treat all Rwandans equal. They should know that there is a still long way to go to correct the blunders committed by the past leaders and work harder to make Rwanda a peaceful and prosperous nation where everybody is a Rwandan.Q: Any other comment you would wish to make?A: I want all Rwandans to sit down and seek strong the right to Rwanda’s problems. You cannot treat a disease without knowing its origin; most Rwandans do not really understand the origin of the troubles that befell the country in post independence period. We should thank God for what it is today; let’s continue to build our country for a better future.