France-based Collectif des Parties Civiles pours le Rwanda (CPCR), which has for nearly two decades worked to bring Genocide suspects living in France to book, now has a local partner – Association Les Amis du Collectif des Parties Civiles pours le Rwanda (ACPCR).

Launched in March, the new organisation has upped tempo; creating awareness and fundraising, so that the CPCR pays for the "very costly” ongoing trial of Genocide suspects Octavian Ngenzi and Tito Barahira.

The Sunday Times’ James Karuhanga recently caught up with ACPCR president Dr Ezéchias Rwabuhihi, to get a picture of what the latter describes as a ‘deliberate ploy by Paris to frustrate justice’, and why they cannot give up despite apparent difficulties.

Below are the excerpts:

After ACPCR’s founding, what are you up to next?

At the moment, our main objective is to fundraise and support the CPCR in France, which must meet expenses for lawyers working for us in the ongoing trial. We are also informing the people about what is going on. We are now in the main phase of the trial. It’s interesting to follow this case and see how lawyers, prosecutors and the president of the court are handling this phase.

How do you actually follow the court proceedings?

Every day we get a summary of what transpired in court from the CPCR. Everyone can actually access the proceedings on CPCR’s website.

During a recent news conference, you said these trials in France are actually not historic as some of us in the media often portray them... 

Not at all. 

Starting from the 2014 trial of Pascal Simbikangwa? 

Maybe you could consider the first one as historic because in France, it was the first. But I can’t consider the second one, after 22 years, as historic because suspects have been taken to court in many other countries. We’ll see what happens at the end but they can’t be called historic because there are challenges with these trials.

You have referred to what is happening in France as agahimano (deliberate obstruction). How is it? 

There are a lot of obstacles in France. Already, there are 28 suspects waiting to appear in court and, many of them have been declared blameless by the courts of first instance in France. There is no political will for justice in France when it comes to Rwandan Genocide perpetrators living there. Things are like that because if justice was done, there would be dangerous connections to some French politicians who supported the genocidal regime here. It is dangerous for many in France who are still high-level politicians such as Alain Juppé who was Minister of Foreign Affairs in 1994, and later on, Prime Minister. Other top French politicians linked to the Genocide include Édouard Balladur, Dominique de Villepin and Hubert Védrine.

Any others?

Many are no longer in active politics but they have influence. Even [Nicolas] Sarkozy was influential back then in 1994. But the hardest difficulty now in France is the military high command officers who were in charge of the numerous military operations. Those are still influential. People such as Admiral Jacques Lanxade, the Army Chief of Staff in 1994, General Jean-Claude Lafourcade and General Christian Quesnot who was in charge of Opération Turquoise.

But it is not a question of individuals. It is a matter of the whole French military establishment. Touch on one, and you are touching the whole establishment. In France, the military is identified as a symbol of honour.  No one dares them. If you dare attack the military, you are attacking French honour. But there are medium rank officers who were in Rwanda in 1994 in Opération Turquoise who are now testifying about the reality of that operation and complicity of the French military during the Genocide.

Any names?

Two who have published books accusing France of complicity of genocide; Col Guillaume Ancel and Adjudant-chef Thierry Prugnaud. They are retired. 

All this shows the importance of the French army in the Genocide. It is the reason why the implication of top politicians like Juppe, who is now a strong presidential candidate for the republicans, is hard. He has lots of chances coming back as president of France next year.

That sounds like trouble around the corner…

He is big trouble for us, no doubt. But you must remember that even in the left wing, the socialists, François Hollande, once worked for François Mitterrand, the French president in 1994. They had a structure called Cohabitation, where the president would be from one side and the prime minister from another. Hollande was a young politician in the socialist party, while Mitterrand was President. This Cohabitation, which might look like power sharing but it is actually not, is the reason why whoever becomes French president, be it socialist or a right wing, the Genocide in 1994 haunts them all. In the past when we saw François Hollande come to power, we thought that maybe things would change. Nothing changed. The situation is very tricky. Very complicated. 

Days before the current trial started, a prosecutor who had worked on the case file threw in the towel. Does this ‘tricky situation’ probably explain why she quit?

Maybe. We don’t really know. But surely, you can see that when the leadership of the country does not want the trials to be held, they won’t be. 

Given these challenges, one then wonders why CPCR or ACPCR carry on. Looks like nothing will change. This is a super power and you are a small organisation with many challenges including finances. Why do you keep pushing on? 

[Laughs] Remember that a week before the commemoration, in April, Alain Juppé tweeted, with intent. It means something. Even if Rwanda is a small country, history explains why he did not wait for the commemoration to begin. Each year, ahead of the main commemoration week, something happens in France. Either a book is published to downplay the Genocide or you have a new report which seems to come from somewhere else, but, France is always behind these things. They are always afraid something is coming from Rwanda and I think, this year, Juppé thought he should be the first to attack. This shows that Rwanda cannot be underrated. They fear it because they know what they did in Rwanda. It’s their guilty conscience. 

In 1994 when the RPF took over power, Juppé himself said the RPF government would not last more than three months. He said this because they were all convinced, together with the Interahamwe network and the then defeated Genocidal regime, that they would come back and finish the job and never have to face an RPF government.

So why then do you really carry on?

We carry on because we know that they know they are guilty. We cannot just give up and say that it is difficult because our history during these 22 years is a very difficult history. We need to claim justice. We don’t care about how difficult or complicated it is but we have to demand for justice. We have no choice. 

But then, justice delayed is justice denied…

But not in the case of a genocide crime. You can wait 60 years and maybe those responsible will disappear. And this is another reason why we should not rest as long as they are living.

There is the thinking also that the French establishment will delay justice so that those guilty and the witnesses and evidence die.

There are people who have died already. But witnesses are still alive. We have the CPCR in France committed to the fight. We have more friends in France too. We are not alone in this fight. This is encouraging. 

In your recent news conference, you pointed to other benefits of the trials. Things such as evidence being revealed in court. 

True. Look at the supporters of those two accused men. It is clear they are both Genocide deniers and revisionists. Many have not appeared in court but sent messages or videos. I think the trials are good. It would be a different a situation if people did nothing. 

What is your message to the public as regards help during the trials?

Justice is very expensive. Even in normal situations. But in the case of France, it is another scandal to see Rwandans obliged to fundraise for trials held not in Rwanda but in France. Those trials should be financed by the international community and France itself. Otherwise, they should have accepted to send those people to Rwanda. The crime of genocide and crimes against humanity are crimes committed against the international community. 

Wherever they are held, they should not be a burden for Rwandans and especially for survivors of the Genocide. That’s scandalous. France, like other countries, should have accepted to fund these trials. In Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, in Sweden and elsewhere, those trials are funded by the country hosting them. 

This explains why it is not normal but we here are obliged to fundraise. The CPCR recruits lawyers who will handle the trial for these two months. It is very expensive. So far, the CPCR has done a lot with their own money but now we have a trial running for two months and it has got more expensive. They cannot afford everything and we have to help them.

Give us a sense of how expensive these trials are. 

I know that for the first trial of Simbikangwa, the whole cost was around Rwf200 million; just for one trial.  

Do you know how much the appeal process will require?

We don’t know. I am not sure we can find enough money to cover the cost but we are trying to raise as much as we can to help the CPCR pay lawyers.

How do Rwandans, or any other well wishers, say in the Diaspora, who wish to help reach you? 

At this point, we are trying to interest Rwandans inside Rwanda first. There is a sensitisation campaign for Rwandans to take this matter as their own. Even if it is an international matter, we remain at the forefront of the fight for justice as Rwandans.

Have you attempted to let the UN know that it should be in charge here?

Not yet. We intend to but we haven’t finished the job with our compatriots, Rwandans. 

So, how exactly, do Rwandans help out?

We have an e-mail address (acpcrwanda@gmail.com) as well as bank account numbers. We encourage all Rwandans to be part of this struggle. I, especially, appeal to the youth to be interested in this struggle because it will be a long one.

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