Jeni Klugman is the Director of Gender and Development at the World Bank. Last week she was in Rwanda to attend the Oxford Human Rights Conference on Women and Poverty. She also visited adolescent girls and women empowerment projects around Kigali. 

The lead spokesperson on gender equality issues, also responsible for developing strategic directions to promote the institution’s gender agenda talked to Women Today’s Doreen Umutesi about her roles as well as the women empowerment status in general. Excerpts;  

As a woman, you were able to break the glass ceiling.  How did you do it?

I come from a very supportive family. They are very concerned about social justice and equality issues. I actually remember when I was about six years old; my mother wore a t-shirt that said "A woman’s place is in the house and the senate.” I was the first woman from New South Wales, Australia, to win a scholarship to Oxford University.

 In my academic work and career, I have not felt disadvantaged. I made a clever choice marrying an academic. I have two children. My husband had flexible work hours and he did most of the child care, so it gave me time to go on missions because my job is demanding. Balancing work and family has been a challenge but having a supportive spouse like my husband has helped me a lot. I advise young women to have big dreams and pursue them, but above all, they have to choose a supportive spouse.

As Director of Gender and Development at World Bank, what are the challenges limiting gender equality in the employment sector? And what should be done to deal with these challenges?

We see persistent gaps in the world of work: in the participation rate, in earnings and the jobs that women do. In understanding what we can attribute to the causes, two things stand out and they are norms and attitudes. So people’s expectations for example on what women should do in terms of types of study, the jobs that women do, as well as the responsibilities and roles, like the universal assumption that a woman’s role is to have children, imposes large constraints. What we see is that the norms and attitude emerge early in life. Even among very young children if we look at the difference between girls and boys, especially in developing countries, girls have low levels of confidence than boys at an early age and that often reflects the parent’s aspirations. So it can start quite young and it happens through school, choice of work and then it can be amplified over time. 

I think the most common theme should be adverse norms and expectations and they should be held by everyone in society, not just boys and men, but also women and girls. Part of it is about self aspirations and goals and they should be expanded for girls and women. But it also means that men and boys are prepared to accept and also support the expansion of women and girls’ capabilities.  The principle of equality and partnership is very important. 

What is the situation of the economic empowerment of adolescent girls and young women in Rwanda? 

Adolescent girls and young women face multiple and overlapping constraints and the school-to-work transition is particularly challenging for young women. For adolescent girls in Rwanda, these challenges are compounded by high rates of poverty, high fertility, and prevalence of gender-based violence.

It is encouraging to see the commitment and efforts that have been made to accommodate young women’s needs in the project design of the Adolscent Girls Initiative (AGI). I was particularly struck by the confidence and enthusiasm that these young women demonstrated. Their aspirations were especially impressive given the disadvantages the girls faced. Many had dropped out of school due to lack of funds, and most of those with whom I spoke had stopped in P6. But they were invigorated by the opportunity to learn, and to go on and earn better incomes in the future. 

We are seeing evidence of the positive impacts that multi-sectoral interventions, such as the AGI, can have for girls and young women. Such interventions not only equip girls with the technical know-how, but also with life skills – social and behavioural skills that enable them to deal effectively with the demands of everyday life.

I am pleased to see the Government of Rwanda’s strong backing and commitment for this project. I hope the experience and lessons that have been learned through this pilot will lead to more gender-aware programmes in Rwanda in education and training, and more broadly. 

Where can Rwanda do better in regards to women empowerment?

Rwanda is at the forefront of supporting gender equality policies and the representation of women in government and across sectors. The very high level of female parliamentary representation - at 64% - is the highest in the world and puts many countries, including my own Australia, to shame! Sustained support is needed to keep up this momentum.

Igniting gender equality involves addressing biases over the lifecycle, and associated market and institutional failures and designing programmes and policies with these constraints in mind.

Skills training projects can empower and support young women to enter non-traditional demand-driven fields, even where gender stereotypes are pervasive. Training women in non-traditional fields requires strong communication efforts including community outreach and coaching of participants.

Earlier this month, Minister Claver Gatete, participated in a community of practice of finance ministers hosted by the World Bank, where he shared some of the strides Rwanda has made on this agenda. One of the things he emphasised was that to advance the gender equality agenda, the involvement of all sectors and stakeholders, including women themselves, is needed in the planning and budget processes.

Based on your experience, for women to stand a bigger chance in self reliance, where do they need to stick to? Is it employment or entrepreneurship and why?  

Gender equality in the world of work does not mean that women and men should make the same choices, but it does mean that they should have an equal range of choices available to them, and equal capabilities to act on those choices. 

Women often face multiple constraints which affect their ability to make these choices. This affects women who are and are not in the labour force. The point is not to tell women where they should be in the labour force, but to provide them with the information they need to make an informed choice and the ability to act on their choice.

In Rwanda, nearly nine out of ten women participate in the labour force. But this doesn’t mean that they are employed in good jobs, running profitable enterprises, or earning as much as their male counterparts.

In Rwanda, for example, males have a more diverse occupational structure than females. In all categories other than agricultural and clerical support, the proportion of males is higher than the proportion of females. Females are largely restricted to agriculture and services and sales work. The percentage of female employees involved in craft and related trades was only 3.2 per cent versus 22 per cent among men.

Give your expert view on how the Government of Rwanda can increase equal employment opportunities to achieve gender equality. 

There is no magic formula to address job challenges; however, effectively tackling gender inequality at work is an integral part of any solution. Igniting gender equality involves addressing biases over the lifecycle, and associated market and institutional failures. Proactive private sector leadership and innovation on gender equality are needed, yet so far too rare. Overcoming gender inequality involves understanding local specificities and developing bold, coordinated actions to address overlapping constraints. The cost of inaction is too great to sidestep our collective responsibility.

How can you rate the opportunities available for women to access start up capital as a way of economic empowerment? 

I think it’s extremely important; lack of access to capital is one of the reasons why many women, particularly in the informal sector, are stuck in very low return activities. 

But I think there are some promising signs. 

There is a growing recognition by the financial sector that women are good customers, as their default rate is lower compared to men.